Home > Jack Hammer > In Case You Aren’t Tired Yet…

In Case You Aren’t Tired Yet…

November 30, 2007

We have opened up a new feature called “discussion.”  The tab for the discussion side of our blog is at the top of the home page, and it will take you to some very nice features.  One feature is the “One-on-One Debate Center” where people like Christopher can go to deal with their issues.  Dave has started things off by graciously offering Christopher his shot at a debate on the repentance issue.  Feel free to follow the debate.  Per Dave’s request, the debate will be limited to six exchanges, and then it will be closed.  So Christopher, you’ve got six chances.  Give it your best shoot!Â

Meanwhile, if everyone else would refrain from posting in the middle of the debate, it would be appreciated.  Feel free to start your own threads on the issue, or simply to comment on the debate in the comments portion of this thread.Â

Bang away!

P.S. You must register with JackHammer to participate in the discussion pages. It’s not hard; just follow the link on the left of the page.

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Categories: Jack Hammer
  1. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 5, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    ” For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH:”

    “Dost thou believe on the Son of God?”

    “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up” That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have etenal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved.He that believeth on Him is not condemned but he that believeth not is condemned already,because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God”

    “To declare,I say,at this time His righteousness:that He might be just,and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”

    “But to him that worketh not,but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly,his faith is counted for righteousness.”

    “For by grace are ye saved through faith”

    “whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ”

    Salvation is for everyone who believes! Is the gospel complicated?
    I can descibe salvation or the gospel in one word……BELIEVE!!!!!!!!
    But some have complicated the gospel with another gospel taught as the doctrine of repentance…..A list of some who teach this false doctrine….
    Catholics,Pentacostals,Apostalics,Seven Day Aventists,Mormons,J.W.’s,and even some so called Baptists like The HammerJacks.
    Show me in the Bible where it says “repent of sins” to be saved……JUST ONE VERSE!!!!!!!!!

    Sirs,what must I do to be saved?….BELIEVE and thou shalt be saved.

  2. December 6, 2007 at 8:16 am

    Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. (James 2:19)

  3. December 6, 2007 at 9:44 am

    Christopher,

    Were you trying to post this on the debate site? Or were you wanting to move the debate over to here?

  4. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 6, 2007 at 4:03 pm

    Dave,I posted this here because when I went to the discussion room,it told me it was closed.I was confused,after all I thought we each had six shots……it don’t matter!We can do this one on one or I;ll debate this issue with all on this site…..however you want to percede.I respect you,so you tell me?!

    Jeff,the Catholics believe and repent of sins on a regular basis,so do many others of many different religions…..the problem with men is they include the worship of other things ( like Mary) and they put their trust in the repenting of sins rather then Christ.

    As far as the devils are concerned,their fate was sealed,sure they believe but not unto to salvation,besides the Blood was for you and me…not the devils……you prove nothing with that verse but your ignorance…..that you think yourself more highly then you ought.
    I’ve produced many verses that directly apply with the topic and proven my stance with Bible,…you folks keep using your circular reasoning tring to prove your private interpatations but have yet to produce JUST ONE VERSE!

  5. December 6, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    Christopher, I closed the discussion on the forum for a short period of time to try to keep others from posting there. You must have seen it during that time period, but it is open now and has been since Dave posted his response to your first salvo.

  6. December 6, 2007 at 11:34 pm

    OK, Christopher, I went ahead and copied your second post over to the debate spot, and I answered it.

    Anyone wishing to follow the debate should click on the “discussion” tab above, and then look for the topic “Repentance – Debate with Christopher Nelson.”

    You’ll find a nice game of dodge ball going on there. I’ve got the balls, and I’m doing the throwing. Meanwhile, Christopher is doing the dodging.

  7. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 7, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    Conlusion from “DEBATE” in the discussion room.

    “And ye have not His Word abiding in you:for whom He hath sent,Him ye BELIEVE not.Search the Scriptures;for in them ye think ye have eternal life:and they are they which testify of me.;Verily,verily,I say unto you,He that heareth my word,(the Gospel ) and BELIEVETH on Him that sent me,hath everlasting life”
    As Moses lifted up the serpant,so must the son of man be lifted up.Even in the foreshadow is simple…….BELIEVE!!!!!

    “All the shot all the hits”More like all the hit and misses!!!!Also,anyone who is honest will acknowledge that I’m not the one playing Dodge Ball………by the way this ain’t no game,..it’s a battle field!!!

    The condition of my challange hasn’t nor will it!….change.GIVE ONE VERSE THAT SAYS (DIRECTLY) REPENT OF SINS IS THE CONDITION TO SALVATION>>>>>UNDERSTAND NOW,….GOOD!,….READY SET,…JUST ONE VERSE!!!!!!!!
    Sirs,what must I do to be saved? BELIEVE and thou shalt be saved.

    You think you will and have won the day,but those with a real mind will peak this out,they see you for the dumb dogs you are!
    “Heres Looking At You” They see your circular reasoning,the way you add and subtract from Gods Word and teach the same doctrine that every Religion teaches…..this other Gospel,this false doctrine ” Repentance”

    ” For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that BELIEVETH….”

    Thats right,they see you for the fools you are!!!!!!

  8. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 7, 2007 at 6:58 pm

    You guessed it,”Still Not Tired Yet”
    Folks,whats so funny about this debate is I have literally battled this same arguement on the false “doctrine of repentance” with Dr.’s of Theology in these faiths…..Mormon,J.W.’s,Catholics,Adventists,The Tongue speaking crowd,even against non-christian groups such as the Muslims…….no different,they all have the same stance and arguement on this subject….they really are every unclean bird!!!!

    One Cross plus Three Nails =FORGIVEN!!!!That Is The Plumb Line.

  9. December 8, 2007 at 7:12 am

    Donkey, you are truly a broken record. You have been shown various verses showing repentance goes hand in hand with belief, and that it is necessary for salvation. Don’t cry out we haven’t shown you any verses just because you won’t accept what we have shown you – that is a pretty childish response.

    Besides, the blog writers – and many of their readers – believe the WHOLE Bible. It is not the belief passages versus the repentance passages – it is the whole Bible together – repentance and belief, just as Paul states in Acts 20:21.

  10. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 8, 2007 at 5:57 pm

    No!What you have shown is alot of circular reasoning,private interpatation……as a like gospel to all religous cults,defining words with other words ,besides Gods Word has reproved you!

    Since, Paul is talking to the Elders of the church,about the teachings,the doctrines and the gospel.
    In Acts 20:21 I see discipleship teaching and then an altar call.
    Since all the verses that directly deals with how one is saved says “BELIEVE” it can’t say what your philosophy teaches..,…………this is not to dismiss any other part of the Bible ………A wife should obey her husband,but this is not how one gets saved;a person should obey the Ten Commandments and Gods other commands,but this is not how one gets saved;a person should turn from sins,but this is not how one gets saved,and Paul says over and over again (when comes to those direct verses) that salvation is through faith alone merited by Gods Grace…….it’s the BLOOD plus nothing!!!!!!!!

    As far as the broken record,that record shows you reprobate,having a form of godliness but dening the power thereof,tring to creep in unaware and turn the Grace of God into lasciviousness.

    “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation”

  11. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 9, 2007 at 8:53 am

    Another thing,even natureitself teaches and testifies that Belief is the key,.Every thing a man does,or says or any stance he might take starts with a belief!
    One must BELIEVE the gospel to BELIEVE that all are sinnersand fall short,which in return leads one to BELIEVE in the need to turn from sin!
    If one don’t BELIEVE the gospel he won’t BELIEVE his sins is so bad he needs the BLOOD applied!
    You deny the witness of Gods Word and you deny the natural truth found in man himself…..dening the power thereof ,and warring against the members of your own body.

  12. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 9, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    You Believe that you must repent of your sins in order to be saved.
    I BELIEVE you can’t have the power or the gift of repenting of sins unless you first BELIEVE the gospel….( the latter is what the bible teaches)…..NOTICE!In both of these FAITHS you still must first BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!! No matter which way you slice the pie,your piece still says BELIEVE! Your own arguement testifies that the only condition to salvation ( unto eternal life ) is to “BELIEVE”!!!!!

    Sirs,what must I do to be saved?…..BELIEVE and thou shalt be saved.

  13. December 9, 2007 at 7:30 pm

    Mr. Donkey,

    If one does not need to repent in order to be saved, can you help me understand this passage:

    I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
    (Luke 15:7)

    If the ninety and nine are just, doesn’t that mean they have been justified? Aren’t saved people justified? Doesn’t this verse say that the saved do not need repentance – that only the lost do?

  14. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 9, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    Gordy,Repentance is an ongoing thing for the Believer,(remember that “sin”,”sins” and “unbelief” are not the definition of repent) the ninty nine are not justified by works but rather they are justified because they turned from unbelief.(repented) They no longer need that type of repenting.The one whom the angels rejoice for is the one who turns from unbelief,believes the gospel and gets saved.
    Also,we will repent many times in this life……..remember repenting isn’t always referring to sin.In fact I repented today from having a hot supper.
    Repentance is not an issue to be dismissed,espeacially the repentance of sin,God is not mocked and sin will be punished weather your saved or unsaved,in fact I personally am more concerned about turning from sin now then before I was saved.

    I am also concerned with people who make the turning from sin a doctrine,many folks of many religions are turning from sin and are still going to hell;many who have believed and have not turned from sin or have turned back to sin are eternally sealed.”1Corinth 3″

    Faith always begets faith,no matter what your faith,it still will always start with BELIEVING! The key to salvation unto eternal life is in what FAITH you have. Thats why the devils believe yet are not saved,Judas also believed and yet was not saved.

    Gordy,if your saved ( and I don’t know if you are) and you BELIEVE only the lost need repent…..my friend that is an issue to which you need to repent.

    “Dost thou BELIEVE on the son of man?”

    “Sirs,what MUST I do to be saved?……Believe and thou shalt be saved.”

  15. December 10, 2007 at 9:25 am

    Mr. Jackass, er Donkey, maybe if you rant, rage, and rail against others enough, you will magically become right.

    Then again, maybe not…

    P.S. Ever heard of a Dictionary and a Spellchecker?

  16. December 10, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    Mr. Donkey,

    Thank you for your response.

    What do the last 6 words of Luke 15:7 say? Compare that to what you said:

    Gordy,if your saved ( and I don’t know if you are) and you BELIEVE only the lost need repent…..my friend that is an issue to which you need to repent.

    Which is right? The Scriptures or you?

    Also, what does it mean to believe? What all is involved in believing?

    BTW, I am saved. I repented and trusted Christ on December 12, 1993.

  17. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 10, 2007 at 6:04 pm

    Jerry,
    I don’t own an original Webster dictionary! And just like we have perverted bibles we also have perverted dictionarys.
    Besides we are dealing with Greek and Hebrew,and I have a Greek and Hebrew dictionary.
    Gordy,”Which is right?The scriptures or you?” It’s not about me being right,but the answer is………BOTH! I’m right because I stand on what the scripture says.
    Dave,I don’t need to rant and rave until I’m magically right;I’m already scripturely.(Hey,thanks for calling me a John the Baptist)
    Truth is your ear says rant and rave because your panties are in a bunch. Maybew your lace is snagged?! That don’t surprise me though,……your of Dave!
    But that guy ain’t no Baptist!,…He’s a Moron..I mean Mormon.
    He tried to be a Baptist,….but when the man of God preached against men wearing lacy underpants…He packed his bags and moved to Utah….where everybody LOVES “spiritual” underpants.
    Spell check is O.K.,but even if it’s wrong,thats not the real problem!
    The real problem is your reprobate!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Gordy,no conflictions between me and Gods word.
    99 Just persons (99 saved persons)How is one Justified?
    If you need help, you can visit the “Hall Of FAITH”

    I’ve always Believed in Christ,atleast as far back as I can remember.
    But I didn’t understand how to Believe,…..until I heard the Gospel preached….I was saved in the summer of 1982.
    Since then I’ve repented of sin and continue to repent of sins
    I even got discipled and earned a degree in Theology and I make no apology “For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ:for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES

  18. EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT! (a.k.a. Christopher Nelsen)
    December 10, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    HIS ETERNAL POWER AND GODHEAD BEAR RECORD AGAINST YOU!
    DIRECT SCRIPTURE;..EVEN “ASKING THE VERY QUESTION OF THIS DEBATE,AND ANSWERING IT…..BEARS RECORD AGAINST YOU!
    ISAIAH,ABRAHAM,MOSES,PAUL,SILAS,PETER,JOHN;..ALL BEAR RECORD AGAINST YOU!!
    THE BLOOD BEARS RECORD AGAINST YOU!
    YOUR OWN ARGUEMENT BEARS RECORD AGAINST YOU!
    NATURE BEARS RECORD AGAINST YOU!
    HEBREW AND GREEK BEAR RERCORD AGAINST YOU!

    THE LIST IS LONGER THEN YOUR LACE!
    AND I THINK THATS EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT!

    I THINK YOU SHOULD REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    “DOST THOU BELIEVE ON THE SON OF MAN?”

  19. December 10, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    Mr. Donkey,

    I’m having trouble how what the scriptures say in Luke 15:

    “just persons, which need no repentance”

    and what you say:

    “if your saved ( and I don’t know if you are) and you BELIEVE only the lost need repent…..my friend that is an issue to which you need to repent.”

    are both correct???

    Can you please explain to me how the just which need no repentance is the same as not just the lost need to repent? Aren’t people either just or lost? Is there a third group? Or is the scripture correct that the just need no repentance?

    Thanks.

  20. HammerJacks Blacklisted Donkey
    December 10, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    Gordy,….How fast was that calf going,anyway ?!

    At this time I’ve explained so simple that even a child can understand;I know this because I’ve wittnessed to children who have a better ability to grasp.
    Which leads me to believe that this discussion is still a game,or else you really are that stupid..or maybe it’s that reprobate mind…..you pick which one.

    P.S.I did think of one more option,…your sincerely confused!
    Me being wrong is not one of the picks,after all,scripture is the final authority.

  21. December 11, 2007 at 12:32 am

    Donkey, Regardless of where you stand on this issue of repentance – you are showing your unchristlikeness by your foul mouth. I can’t believe you are posting the vile speach that you are using. You certainly didn’t get that from God’s Word or the leading of the Holy Spirit. Just who are you listening to? Seems to me, you are the one with the reprobate mind – at least your speach is reprobate!!

  22. December 11, 2007 at 5:57 am

    Mr. Donkey,

    I admit I do have a simple mind and I am sincerely confused by your statements. Could you please explain it to me in simple terms so even a child could understand? How are the two statements compatible – the scripture and yours?

  23. December 11, 2007 at 8:37 am

    I’m getting tired. I believe the calf is going too fast and too far.

  24. Mike Hontz
    December 11, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    I would simply point out that the context of Luke 15 places Jesus’ statements in verse 7 as contrasting the publicans and sinners who realized they needed to repent, and did with the Pharisees and Scribes who didn’t think they needed to repent, and didn’t. The 99 just men who had no need of repentance then is a reference to the Pharisees, not saved people. Jesus’ point in context in this parable is that He will leave the religious crowd who don’t see any need to repent in order to minister to the ‘sinners’ who know they are lost and are willing to repent. Having said this, I’m not sure that I would use this verse to prove that saved people never need to repent. Certainly the rest of the Bible seems to indicate that they do. However, it is likewise clear that the sinners here did repent in order to be saved.

    One more thing – I think that it might be helpful for those involved in this debate to define what they mean by ‘repenting of sin’. Donkey likens what most of you mean by repenting of sin with what the Catholics and cults mean by it which I think is probably an unfair characterization. The Catholics believe that certain good works are required in order to gain their salvation. What most independent baptists who say that repentance is needed for salvation mean is that a ‘change of mind’ about sin is required for salvation. Certainly if one is to ‘believe’ the gospel message, it must be included in that ‘believing’ the fact that he is a sinner who needs to be delivered from his sin. This is a change from his previous mindset which was likely content to remain in his sin apart from God. However, this is not a ‘repentance’ separated from ‘belief’ as other contributors have already pointed out. Just as Donkey has rightly mentioned that repentance is always linked with belief, so too I believe that belief is always linked with ‘repentance’ – that is a change of ‘mind’ about what one used to think and ‘believe’ in order to accept a new set of beliefs about sin, righteousness and judgment.

    Please correct me if I am wrong in how you would define ‘repentance’. Do you all define it as a change of mind which leads to salvation and which will lead eventually to a change in behavior (after salvation), or do you see it as a change in behavior which will lead to salvation?

  25. December 11, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    All those reading this should note that Christopher embodies the Hyles-type perfectly. Christopher has done something for us that we could not have done without his help. He has demonstrated the spirit, attitude, scholarship (or lack thereof), and Christianity that is typical of the Hylots. We could have written about it, described it, spoken against it, but you wouldn’t have believed us without his help. He has shown you what it is to be of Hyles.

    For that, we thank him. We couldn’t have done it without him.

    And, having said “thank you,” we now say “farewell.” We will delete any comments you make in the future, and will only allow you to finish the debate (you get three more chances). After that, you are done on this blog. You have utterly disregarded our second rule, which says (in part)…

    But keep within the parameters of Christian civility. We’ll automatically delete comments with profane or unwholesome words, including abbreviated or otherwise disguised ones.

  26. Gary Johnson
    December 11, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    “And, having said “thank you,” we now say “farewell.” We will delete any comments you make in the future,”

    THANK YOU
    It is fitting that the end came in the post named, “In case you aren’t tired yet…”
    I certainly was getting tired of it, but as Bro. Mallinak just said, he proved the point better than anyone could have written about it.

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